Track Editor feedback

[Purple44]

Thanks GulBroz, but that method seem a bit involved. I think it be easier to open splines.ai file before importing and make copy of:

   ["AIBorderLineRight"] = {
      Count = 7,
      ControlPoints = {
         [1] = { -424.087249, 0.000000, -483.377712},
         [2] = { 28.765147, 0.000000, -481.837683},
         [3] = { 208.834288, 0.000000, -481.018470},
         [4] = { 347.084093, 0.000000, -483.148340},
         [5] = { 394.348134, 0.000000, -473.973620},
         [6] = { 421.866905, 0.000000, -442.779502},
         [7] = { 466.146202, 0.000000, -340.939856},
      },

and then Paste over AIRaceLine:

   ["AIRaceLine"] = {
      Count = 0,
      ControlPoints = {
      },
   },

and then rename AIBorderLineRight to AIRaceLine.

Did fresh import of Hazard Hollow and then deleted the splines form trackai file and then imported tweaked splines with the proper set of AIRaceLine spline points, then exported geo file after doing a little object tweak and export work fine and all AI data files show up. Now just need to delete AIRaceLine that was exported and replace with:

   ["AIRaceLine"] = {
      Count = 0,
      ControlPoints = {
      },
   },

Then splines.ai file good to go.

And I think I could have use this method to fix the problem I had yesterday, but can't test, I close Blender without saving where I was at. But if I had imported this tweak file ( instead of making a copy of AI_Border_Right_0 ), it would of gave me the missing  AI_Race_Line_0 spline and I could of delete the AI_Border_Right_0.001 and AI_Border_Left_0.001 that would of been created.

[Purple44]

GulBroz can you please fix my junkyard blend file again. I got started again with Junkyard and the problem I posted about in reply #151 back in April 24th:

http://flatoutjoint.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=228.150

is back. I open my last blend file for junkyard and was tweaking telephone poles and went to export to test and found objects missing again and rainbow colors.

So could you please fix junkyard blend file one more time, PLEASE! 

Maybe this time be best to fix blend file, then export a good geo file and can use geo file to do a fresh import into a New window and save a brand new blender file and see if this stop this from happening again.

[Purple44]

Thanks from some great help from Gulbroz, I got the telephone poles square away and have an new object from another track imported into the Junkyard track!! 



Here a short video of object falling out of the sky:
Flaming Outhouse

Thanks again GulBroz for your hard work on figuring out how to import objects from other tracks.

[kyller]

Is there any way how to fix reseting cars under bridges and random reseting cars on the start line? It is really annoying... it is happening even in FOJ community tracks 

[kyller]

Well... I tried to use trackai.bin and didn't remove it, and reseting under bridges seems to be fixed, even no crash game and I tried it many times. This is really weird 
But reseting on the start line (sometimes, not always), even player is in the middle of track, stayed... sometimes it resets car also 5 checkpoints backward... but I crossed those checkpoints, because when I did not reset car and drive in the finish, my lap is counted, so I have no idea what's the problem 

[Purple44]

The spline points are what the game uses to reset your car must of the time. With Flatout 2 the spline points are part of the trackai.bin file and use a height number along with a "x" and "y" number. This height number what keeps you from resetting under a bridge.

But GulBroz was unsuccessful in exporting a trackai.bin that Flatout 2 like. So that why my custom tracks use checkpoints, startpoints and splines files from Flatout 1. And that why car will reset under bridge where solid ground is. Splines file does not use height coordinate.

You can try and tweak where you put your spline points around a bridge and see if you can get car to rest to a spline point before the bridge.

***************************************************

About bad resets and resetting to the start line. Resetting on custom tracks is hit or miss. Sometimes reset points work, some times they don't. On figure 8 tracks, crossing the spline lines usually cause bad resets. No fix for that. And take my Hazard Hollow track, it basically a big oval track. You would think the spline points would work OK for resetting your car. But if you get half way around the Hazard Hollow track and then reset your car, car end up at start line.    I don't know why this happens!

[kyller]

Hmm... I really don't know what I did, but reseting seems to be fixed, I tried it like 30-40 times and it works fine, even trackai.bin doesn't crash game... or at least I think so 
All I did was that I did reset retopo tool in Blender for all splines, changed location for some spline points, removed some split lines, some of them relocated.... and it worked.... but I am definitely going back to creating derby tracks 

[Purple44]

Hmm... I really don't know what I did, but reseting seems to be fixed, I tried it like 30-40 times and it works fine, even trackai.bin doesn't crash game... or at least I think so 
All I did was that I did reset retopo tool in Blender for all splines, changed location for some spline points, removed some split lines, some of them relocated.... and it worked.... but I am definitely going back to creating derby tracks 

Hmmm. so you edit some spline and split points with Blender and exported a new trackai.bin and new trackai.bin file loads new track and AI cars go the new route like you expect them too?

[kyller]

Hmm... I really don't know what I did, but reseting seems to be fixed, I tried it like 30-40 times and it works fine, even trackai.bin doesn't crash game... or at least I think so 
All I did was that I did reset retopo tool in Blender for all splines, changed location for some spline points, removed some split lines, some of them relocated.... and it worked.... but I am definitely going back to creating derby tracks 

Hmmm. so you edit some spline and split points with Blender and exported a new trackai.bin and new trackai.bin file loads new track and AI cars go the new route like you expect them too?

----------------------------------------------------------


Well, AI cars, it is only thing which doesn't work with trackai.bin (we are talking about this track, in my other tracks trackai.bin crash game, but this one doesn't, it is built on pinegrove 1). AI cars works only when you push them through start line (I mean first split line) or I think so, anyway they race like I expect them to, but only when I crash into them and push them a little bit forward... But it doesn't matter for me, because it is for online tournaments mostly
And yes, I did like you said, I edited and a little bit changed spline and split points, some of them removed, but I did not change so much route itself. I did a terrible mess with some spline points (I was experimenting) and it suddenly worked... I have no idea why...

here is screenshot of AI data from Blender

[Purple44]

kylle, did you read this post of mine?

   
Rules to follow when making splines and splitpoints files. 

Some people are wanting to know how to set up splitpoints and splines to get AI cars to race a new track. So here some of what I’ve learn over a year of track making:

startpoints.bed       -     where the cars start the race and what with way the face ( angle )
splitpoints.bed       -      check points for the track and the start and finish lines
splines.ai               -      tell the AI cars where to drive and usually controls where                                                            *                                    cars reset to on the track.

Some rules to follow when doing new splitpoints and spline points for new tracks so AI cars will race the track and laps will count.

Splitpoints:

You need at least 2 sets of splitpoints. Splitpoint 1 needs to be the first splitpoint the AI cars drive to. But the cars can start behind the finish line ( last set of splitpoints ) The last set of splitpoints listed in splitpoints.bed file ( set #4 ) is the finish line where the cars must pass between the left and right splitpoint to trigger finish if they have already pass #1, #2 and #3 splitpoints in correct order.

Count = 4

Splitpoints = {
   [1] = {            start line
      Position = { -25.916016, 0.000000, 427.169373 },
      Left = { -25.916012, 0.000000, 496.250763 },
      Right = { -25.916019, 0.000000, 358.087982 },

   },
   [2] = {
      Position = { 111.473999, 0.000000, 425.434601 },
      Left = { 111.474007, 0.000000, 494.515991 },
      Right = { 111.473991, 0.000000, 356.353210 },

   },
   [3] = {
      Position = { 224.854614, 0.000000, 317.419586 },
      Left = { 293.557556, 0.000000, 324.640533 },
      Right = { 156.151657, 0.000000, 310.198639 },

   },
   [4] = {              finish line
      Position = { 221.748291, 0.000000, 115.331848 },
      Left = { 290.829681, 0.000000, 115.331825 },
      Right = { 152.666901, 0.000000, 115.331871 },

   },
}

Spline points ( where things get tricky ): 

1.  The #1 spline point needs to be near where the cars starts the race and left and right #1 spline points need to be wide enough apart that all 8 cars are between the left and right #1 spline points. If the AI cars do not "see" the #1 spline point, they can get confuse and drive off in wrong direction trying to find it. ( pic below )

2.  DON’T cross the left and right spline points! Always keep the left spline points on the left side of track as car travels down the track and  right spline points on the right side of track. If left and right spline points get cross on the track, AI cars will get confuse when they reach this point on the track.

3.  In general the place where cars are reset to on the track is control by where the spline points are on the track. So when testing where cars reset to and you get a bad reset, try moving spline points that are near by or add a new one. Resetting is still a bit of a mystery on how it all works. I’ve seen some weird resets when I do figure 8 tracks  and the spline lines cross, especially near where track intersection, you can get some bad resets ( like half the way around the track ).

In making my first track for FO 1 ( Bay City obstacle course ) I ran into a limit of the spline points I could use, 63. If I use 64 spline points game would crash. Then I found out since I did not have enough spline points for the whole track I had to leave the first 1/5 of the track without any spline points, so when I hit reset, I was reset to a nearby splitpoint ( like up in the grandstands ). So be aware that if you are making an extra long track you may run into these two issues.

4.  Don’t get two different numbered splines points to close together.
Example:

spline point #16 = 45.789560
spline point #17 = 48.605087

You’ll know there to close if game crashes when your car reaches this part of the track.





To get an idea of how to go about placing your spline points, take a look at splines.ai files for Flatout 1 & 2. It easy to get AI cars to go straight, it's getting AI cars around corners, especially sharp corners that hard. You can use Pav’s Track editor ( FO 2 splines.ai file need some tweaking before loading ) or GulBroz new Blender Track Editor.

Me, I cheat and copy chunks of spline points from different splines files and paste them into one splines.ai file, then renumber the spline points and make sure I paste the right spline points into the AIBorderLineRight and the left spline points into the AIBorderLineLeft. Then tweak new spline file from there. But if your new track does not use any existing Flatout track, you’ll have to do whole track from scratch.

When done with rough draft of splines.ai file, you will need to test it by starting the track and watching how the AI cars drive the track. And there are some dumb AI cars that will always have trouble on the track. So ignore them and watch the better racers like Jack and Sofia. If you see the cars having trouble try moving or adding a spline point to help them out.

Lots of trial and error and you still will not get it perfect unless maybe spend a month tweaking spline file.


*******************************************************




It sound like the AI are not seeing the first splitpoint [1]. The first splitpoint [1] need to be out in front of the start\finish line. If first splitpoint [1] is at the the start\finish line, that will confuse the AI.


Looking at your picture, you got 3 splitpoints\checkpoints in a row that the left spline line is going around them. Any AI or players staying to the left on your track is going to miss these splitpoints. I would make them longer so they cross over the left AI slpine line.

Also where track crosses track and then turn left for a loop, it look like the spline lines maybe missing the splitpoint. But you may of had to put the spline points where they are to get AI to turn corner, so if lap still counts if player hugs the left inside of the corner, your OK.

I try and place the left and right splitpoints into a solid object or building so players have to go between the left and right splitpoints.

In the red circle in my pic, it look like the left spline crosses over the middle spline line and stay this way for awhile. Is this your doing or did stock trackai.bin splines came that way?

I'm not sure if any thing happens if cross middle spline, but if cross left spline line over right or cross right spline line over left, AI cars will get confuse when they hit this crossing point.

Remember if you don't want players to cheat your track, place the splitpoints\checkpoints ( an objects ) in the rights spots, so if players try a shortcut you do not want him to use, lap won't count. If want players to use some shortcuts, then place splitpoints\checkpoints in spots that will allow shortcut\ lap to count.

[kyller]

Yeah, I am aware of most of it already, but thx

It sound like the AI are not seeing the first splitpoint [1]. The first splitpoint [1] need to be out in front of the start\finish line. If first splitpoint [1] is at the the start\finish line, that will confuse the AI.

I tried this one, but didn't help. Anyway, AI works properly without trackai.bin, but not with this file and it really doesn't matter, because I am doing tracks for online multiplayer.
On the other hand, without trackai.bin I wasn't able to fix reseting under bridge and under ground. I put all spline points higher, much higher... yeah, it had some affect on some spline points, but it seemed random.

Looking at your picture, you got 3 splitpoints\checkpoints in a row that the left spline line is going around them. Any AI or players staying to the left on your track is going to miss these splitpoints. I would make them longer so they cross over the left AI slpine line.

Screenshot I posted doesn't show real route, only splines, but they in fact are behind route.

I try and place the left and right splitpoints into a solid object or building so players have to go between the left and right splitpoints.

In the red circle in my pic, it look like the left spline crosses over the middle spline line and stay this way for awhile. Is this your doing or did stock trackai.bin splines came that way?

This is my job... in fact when I was reseting retopo tool and experimenting with relocating spline points, this happened, but it works fine. When I pushed into AI cars and they did race properly, they finished whole track... some of them 

BTW: Before I had everything properly like it should be, but reseting on the start line was still happening. So I did somehow this terrible mess, and I would think it won't work ever, but it works perfectly.

[kyller]

How can I do this

http://flatoutjoint.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&action=dlattach;topic=228.0;attach=4987;image

and this? 

http://flatoutjoint.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&action=dlattach;topic=228.0;attach=5219;image

[GulBroz]

For the 1st one, you'll have to assign "screenmaterial" to object (I don't know if it's working with dynamic objects) - see pic below.

For the 2nd one (lights) you need the new version of Blender Track Editor (which I used for Hellbowl). It's not released yet; I finally managed to compiled it (I had to reinstall a lot of old stuff :/), but I found an annoying bug while writing a new tutorial on importing objects from one track to another...

[kyller]

Nice, thx 

I am looking forward to new version of TE! 

[kyller]

Any news about new version of TE?